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bmsgOn December 24, 2024, SKY-HI had a second interview with Economy News Academy on World Business Satellite (formerly TeleTo BIZ).
Compared to the interview in 2023 that talked about the state of the Japanese entertainment and music industry, the interview in 2024 focused on SKY-HI and BMSG's goals to expand overseas, what they've discovered and what their plans are. The interview also features SKY-HI discussing at length about Japanese music industry's reliance on the CD business model and a need to move to streaming services to keep the industry sustainable and functioning.
Also included in the interview in 2024 is a tour of the new BMSG office as well as interviews with BMSG Artists (BE:FIRST) and BMSG managers (Section 1, 2, 4, Trainee's Base).
On December 25, 2024, the full interview - one hour 27 minutes - was available on YouTube for 48 hours, the version that remains is an abridged, 26 minutes version.
The full interview is available on TV Tokyo's World Business Satellite's website (VPN required).
- Staff count: ~80 employees
🌞: [Working space / hours] is free address with core-flex, so everyone’s everywhere
Context 1: “Free address” is Japanese for hot-desk or desk-sharing
Context 2: “Core flex” is Japanese for flextime with core hours staff need to be in the office
🌞: So the postal address was my house 😂. Then around 5~7 in a house…
MC: To now your own building
🌞: Yes
MC: And you bought this [building] right?
🌞: Yes
MC: How much did it cost?
🌞:... Can I say this actually? I’ve heard that my credibility has increased as the company grows. The bank told me I can lend my own money. So the bank lent the money to BMSG after I purchased the building myself.
MC: OK, so you could buy [the building] under your name and get a loan from the bank. The bank lent you money because the company's profit growth was sufficiently guaranteed, enough [for you] to buy this building.
🌞: After all, the capital structure of BMSG is already equal to Hidaka, so if the company is growing, it is the same to lend [money] to the company as it is to lend to me. Since the money is lent to me, BMSG doesn’t get burned to the ground [from this purchase]. So, pretty much, I bought it and I’m lending it to BMSG.
Context 3: In layman terms, boss bought the BMSG building under his name / bank account rather than the company's one so that the expense is under his name / bank account and not the company's. He is also therefore leasing the building to BMSG, this is reflected in BMSG's bookkeeping.
MC: So BMSG is heading into its fifth year
🌞: Yes
MC: And what I have here is:
- BMSG started off with a deficit of approximately 20 million yen.
- Second year, the operating profit was around 1 billion yen.
- It was over 1.2 billion yen in the third.
The 2024 fiscal year (June, 2024) shows an approximate net profit of over 1.995 billion yen. Have you seen the results?
🌞: I have. The fifth year after the start-up period is usually the most critical time. The fifth and sixth year are crucial. I have to admit I’m pulling out all stops.
MC: At the current rate of profit growth, the company will exceed 2 billion by the end of the financial year ending June, 2025.
🌞: That’s right. I say it will be critical because if the profits made so far are to be expected, then the second investment phase will come. [Investment and] loss of new artists and their promotions… For artists who have already achieved results in Japan, their overseas activities… All in all, I think there will be an increase in expenditures around 9, maybe 10 figures. So I’m not aiming for net profit growth in the next fiscal year (June 2025). I think the answer will come in the following fiscal year (June, 2026).
MC: But the answer will reveal itself around this time next year?
🌞: I think to some extent, the answer will be there this time next year
MC: Are you going to invest most of this 2 billion profit into overseas expansion?
🌞: A third into overseas expansion; two thirds will be in new artists and getting them off to a good start.
MC: So you started off with a deficit of 20 million yen to now with an over 2 billion yen in profit.
🌞: The huge thing is we are growing every year and we are able to properly grow our business structure while our profits increased. It means we’re growing in a healthy way, I think it’s the ideal form and success in line with the achievement I was aiming for at the start.
MC: You also invested 100 million yen under your name, you’ve earned back pretty much all of that right?
🌞: Yes. At this point, I don’t know what comes in and what goes out 😂 I don’t use much of my personal money, but I do know I’ve gotten it back.
MC: BMSG is aiming for overseas as an entertainment company and music company. What is the ratio of overseas sales to total sales?
🌞: I want to preface this with some words of wisdom, it’s not nearly enough. Internet streaming services, music video, YouTube ads are our main source [of profit], but it’s not at a stage where it stands out as a profit. But, on streaming services and music videos on Youtube – when you can view these for free – the numbers are increasing, nationally too. In percentage, which may look flat at a glance, but [overseas numbers] is the same, sometimes even more, than domestic growth. It is even more pronounced since the beginning of this year. To be more precise, probably from the latter half of last year, the overseas numbers are increasing. As for what / where, there are months where about 40% of numbers on streaming services are overseas. The number of people listening to us is increasing, I think we need to link it to actual numbers [in profit] somewhere. In my case, I have to do this by mobilizing staff for the live tours; by making [listeners] want the merchandise. By making them want the merchandise it makes them want to see the live shows. I’m currently thinking, “What can we / I do to make people in other countries want to see our live performances?” “How much work can you do to make people overseas want to buy the merchandise?” something like that.
MC: Is it true then that in order to make a profit, you have to do a live, earn money from ticket sales, and sell merchandise there?
🌞: Hmmm, I think so. And it depends on the country too, so it’s hard to say overseas, even. An approach for America, an approach for Europe, an approach for Southeast Asia, for East Asia… It’s a big change but I think one of the most important one in terms of the global economic market if you go to Asia or Southeast Asia.. What people want the most right now is not profit but actual numbers, to be honest. There is an influx of this in streaming, so if there’s an increase in streaming in the future, the number of views / plays that can be guaranteed as our base will increase drastically, I want to build on that.
MC: By numbers you mean [one] listener who listens to a song and the view counts on videos?
🌞: Yes, I want to increase those numbers. Of course the artist [and me] are happy if you listen to them 10 times, 100 times. I want to make songs where you want to listen to them 100 times so I’m grateful but if the unique [numbers] don’t increase it’s a headache, [since] there’s a limit to people’s time. I think if you can get [numbers up for] streaming and music videos on YouTube in Asia and Southeast Asia, where there’s explosive population growth in the weaker areas, the numbers will be more meaningful than sales in the long term, no, even mid-term.
MC: Ashizawa Noriko-san of Spotify Japan told Nikkei Entertainment that the core listener group of BE:FIRST are millennials, but the listeners overall is well-balanced across wide age groups. In particular, their overseas listener ratio is the one of the highest out of Japan’s boy groups at 40%.
🌞: 40% right? Yes.
MC: Japan is, of course, on the top of the list, but this is followed by
#2 America
#3 Germany
#4 Indonesia, and
#5 Brazil. America is #2!
🌞: Yes…
MC: Is [BE:FIRST] considerably well-seen in America? They listen [to BE:FIRST]?
🌞: I think so. I don’t think this can be called a success yet, but in terms of variables there were a lot of various factors that allowed the numbers to go up in the US between 2023 and now – it’s still continuing. We’re still… Listeners and fans are different, aren’t they? There is no doubt that the listeners are increasing, so it’s a matter of getting them to become fans and to think that it’s worth it… hmmm, like a distinctive appeal? 2026 will be BE:FIRST’s fifth year since debut, if at that time articles like “JPop sensation” appear in US media, I think the situation will change considerably.
MC: So BE:FIRST hasn’t earned revenues from the live in North America.
🌞: Yes, I think our first approach will be the world tour tentatively set for spring, 2025. This is another reason why Japanese artists cannot continue to expand overseas on an ongoing basis, because it does take much more time and money than organizing a live in Japan. For example, in Japan, they can get 100K people for a two-day show in Tokyo Dome, whereas in North America, [maybe] they can get a few thousand? One would think it’s already great to get a few thousand people in America right? If you keep doing that, you can get 10K then 20K people, then you start seeing stadiums. When you get to stadiums in the US, it really, truly, changes the order of magnitude. That said, the economic situation is completely different.
MC: That’s true, even the price of a ticket is totally different.
🌞: Yes, very different ticket prices, and are you gaining that as yen or [US] dollars too 😂
MC: True, you can make the money in [US] dollars. With the yen being weaker, you could have substantial sales.
🌞: I could, yes. It’s easy to think about it, right? And it’s easy for everyone to imagine that, isn’t it? It’s how everyone does it in Japan – live houses, halls, arenas, then DON! Dome! I think you can imagine that for the US as well, but all of the money, time, and [artists’] fatigue, you’ve filled up three months. Can [the company] continue to invest close to 1 billion yen for 2-3 years non-stop by spending the 1 billion yen on those 3 months? And making a ton of profit? In the end, I know we will be able to recoup a lot, but I don’t think there are many companies that are ready to throw away 2-3 years’ worth of 1 billion yen so easily.
MC: If you want to make 1 billion yen for a two-day show at Tokyo Dome in the short term, well, you can do it. But you know there are bigger profits in the overseas market. In order to grab a hold of that, you have to start with a few thousand people, maybe a small arena tour in the U.S, which you think will take 2-3 years?
🌞: Yes
MC: And no company has the strengths [financially or human resources] to withstand that
🌞: I won’t put it as, “no company has the strengths to withstand it”, but I do think it takes a lot of courage.
MC: Yes, it might fail.
🌞: Yes, BMSG truly is a start-up in that sense. I built this and said from the beginning, we’re doing this kind of thing, so I think it won’t be a bad influence on the company and people are brave enough to see us off.
Context 4: “Halation” in Japanese business terminology is “causing a bad influence” in business, whether in the context of mistakes, troubles, or negative factors impacting the environment / health of a company.
MC: A normal entertainment company might consider the prospect of going to the U.S., make a lot of money for a number of years, but it’s risky and time-consuming.
🌞: Yes, and your immediate profits drop. Moreover, when it comes to artists who can take on challenges abroad, they are basically artists with numbers in Japan, aren't they? In other words, they are definitely the breadwinners for any agency, so I think the possibility of losing their mainstay is scary.
MC: If you were a mainstream artist, you could make 1 billion yen for a two-day show in Tokyo Dome.
🌞: Yes, even if it’s not profitable, you still make sales.
MC: If you do a national tour, you can certainly make some money…
🌞: The profit is already there, it’ll be outrageous
MC: Why all this trouble of going abroad then? We tend to think, “don’t tread on troubled waters”
🌞: That’s true
MC: But BMSG is different?
🌞: Yes
MC: You’re aiming for overseas
🌞: Yes, but this is also a matter of course. BMSG is only five years old. When you think about the next 5, 10, 20 years as the population continues to dwindle (in Japan), it won’t be possible for a company to grow if it can’t gain foreign currency. This isn’t limited to the entertainment industry, right? So I think we have to do something somewhere. Japan needs to be rejuvenated, and needs to increase its national strength. To do that, at the bare minimum, a company needs to be capable of earning foreign currency. If we don’t do this, we won’t have a happy future.
MC: So BMSG is developing artists that can earn money in [US] dollars.
🌞: No, it doesn’t have to be [US] dollars really.
MC: Your [artists] will earn money in various national currencies
🌞: Yes.
MC: When the yen has been depreciating so much, do the ticket prices differ considerably both domestically and abroad?
🌞: Yes. It's quite different at home and abroad, and it was SNS that made me realise that the current economic situation in Japan is quite critical. SNS these days, especially X, you’ll see posts from people you don’t follow right. In one post I saw, it said, “The money available for oshikatsu has clearly changed between three years ago and now.”
MC: Does that mean it's decreasing?
🌞: It's decreasing.
Context 5: Oshikatsu means supporting your oshi by purchasing goods, attending live events, etc.
MC: The money Japanese people can use for oshikatsu is decreasing
🌞: It’s decreasing and because they said it, I thought [back to] a few years earlier if [goods] come out I’d want everything. So, it’s not a “I won’t buy this~” but a, “I have no choice but to give up on this” now. It seems they had to give up on [oshikatsu]. When I saw the post about the amount of money available for oshikatsu was clearly decreasing between three years ago and now, I thought, “Of course. It’s natural.” The Japan’s economy is clearly different now than it was four years ago when this company started. Entertainment has the power to energise a country, it can improve a country’s economic situation – it has the power to make a company expand into a global one than staying domestic, S.Korea has already proven this. Under this looming situation, we’re finally getting down to business – [going] overseas, with everyone [together]. I don’t really want to monopolize the market or be in a warring situation, not at all. We all want to make Japan better. I really, truly, want to improve Japan’s economy.
MC: Like you said, compared to 3 years ago the amount of money one fan can spend has changed? I’m sure you see the numbers in goods and merchandise.
🌞: It has changed quite a lot. The energy during debut was, of course, high. For example the numbers now, you might think “Isn’t this perfect?” but fans are people with a normal income, you interact with these people across the country. That’s why I’m not just an executive, but an artist and producer, when I’m a producer, I am in the audience along with the fans. When I’m an artist I’m looking at [the BMSG artists] on stage. When I’m an executive I only look at the numbers. I think, from my point of view, we are definitely getting poorer.
MC: So the amount of money one fan can spend on goods and merch has decreased. Because of COVID, the cost of living has already gone up as well. Ticket prices too?
🌞: Yes.. When the prices go up, the number of equipment and materials we can use for a single gig can still be huge. Take a single cord, even a 0.5 yen increase will be outrageous. Moreover, there are a lot of imported goods.
MC: With the weak yen…
🌞: It's crazy
MC: It gets expensive.
🌞: Even once you raise the ticket prices.. It’s still severe compared to 3-4 years ago. I don’t know if anyone who has gone to lives before can tell that the LED screens have gotten a little smaller? Equipment and materials are definitely rising in price. I also feel like the air is different. The pace in which the word “budget” is mentioned in the production team and live production team has increased a little from three years ago. Of course, it’s my decision, as an entrepreneur, whether or not I go beyond our budget. But I think there are conversations coming up where 3 years ago would not have been discussed, related to budget.
MC: Although there is naturally a certain amount of price shifting in tickets, but profits are still tight.
🌞: Yes, that's right. And what makes me sad is mmm… an artist’s responsibility… For example, if the ticket price is 10K yen, you’d think, “I can watch this live at 10K? That’s cheap!!”, it’s that responsibility. The responsibility lies with the artist not to make people think that 10,000 yen is too much, but I think this hurdle is getting higher and higher.. Ticket prices are rising but income is decreasing due to an influx of newcomers. So there’s an increasing number of people who are interested but can’t go [to a live / event]. From an economic standpoint, it’s a loss but it’s a serious problem because the essence of entertainment… We want to reach 8 billion people. We are making things that we think should reach 8 billion people.. But because of the economy, there are people who can’t get there.
MC: The data from Spotify (Japan) shows you’ve got a decent number of overseas listeners, but it’s not profitable [yet].
🌞: That’s right. Streaming and master recording businesses will grow in the future. I think once [listeners] become fans, we can provide them with a number of monetization methods as we want from our end. The most symbolic of this – and one with an overwhelmingly high rate of return to the artists – is merchandise and fan clubs. We are financially dependent on those two things, but how to increase the number of listeners and create a route for those listeners to become fans is something I’ve been thinking about constantly.
MC: So would you say that you’re at the stage where you’re planting the seeds at the moment?
🌞: Ah~ Yes yes. I think that is completely true in overseas markets. Probably a large percentage of the Japanese listeners who are currently listening to BE:FIRST, BE:FIRST is their “Top Artist”... What I mean is, there are people who listen to us through a stream of overseas artists, so for most overseas listeners, BE:FIRST isn’t their “Top Artist”, they may or may not be in the Top Five.
MC: They may be listening to BTS or something
🌞: That’s a high possibility, yes. So I can understand that the percentage of [BE:FIRST] being in the “Top Artist” is not that high [overseas]. In Japan, the ratio of BE:FIRST [being “Top Artist”] is really high. The strong loyalty of the fans is our most important asset. Even though they are a group born from an audition and weren’t at their peak at debut... But [BE:FIRST] has been steadily growing since then, which is… how should I put it, They're reliable, and the company has them as a great guarantee.
MC: Do you think next year will be the year when BE:FIRST finally start expanding overseas in earnest and make money abroad?
🌞: I think next year is still an investment phase. But as a company, there are two main things. First, is the creation of new artists, two of which are highly praised, now that they are debuting and have releases. The second is that existing artists have been able to establish their own music styles and their own fanbases. If what we have been doing is right, the gift will come at some point.
MC: Earlier, you said you’ll become a company that earns foreign currencies.
[boss laughs]
MC: How much money do you see the company earning abroad in the future? More than half?
🌞: I think it will. But in the future… It depends on how many years from now. If I think about the economic situation of Southeast Asia in roughly 10 years’ time, I think being able to compete there will result in that.
MC: Is there a method to earning money overseas?
🌞: For overseas, we talked about creating fans right? To create fans, you need to increase the listeners. In order for Japanese artists to reach [overseas] listeners is actually very difficult. What the Japanese entertainment companies, music labels have done up to now… Is the majority has taken a backwards look at streaming.
MC: [Streaming] is supposed to mean that anyone around the world can listen…
🌞: Supposed to be
MC: Is it because of power, after all?
🌞: Power is a part but the current business scheme is backwards in terms of change. It is afraid of change and as a result of being backwards, our hands are tied.
MC: [Is this due to] the dependence on CDs?
🌞: Yes, I would say around the 2010s or even around 2005. Even though America’s Tower Records ceased to exist in 2010, [Japan] depended on it. [CDs] are public goods so I don’t think the decision is wrong there, but the reality of the problem is that [Japan is] completely behind the trend of [seeing] streaming services rewriting the global music business.
MC: The J-music industry
🌞: Yes, that’s a fact. Around 2010, when YouTube completely changed the music industry it was a trend we all could have imagined, but the Japanese music scene became too powerful, made a lot of success. [It’s like] a luxury liner like the Titanic finishing [a cruise] and it can’t move anymore. So it’s necessary that [overseas] listeners are able to listen [to music], but there is no streaming in Japan. The algorithm… [If listeners] are listening to overseas artists, it’s unlikely they’ll come across [a Japanese song] by chance. For myself, I sometimes listen to Thai songs, sometimes Indonesia, or South Africa, [the algorithm] will randomly give me a Mongolian artist. This is the interesting thing, and high [value of], streaming services.
MC: So we come into contact with artists from around the world [on streaming services], but Japan’s artists are not there so people [overseas] don’t get suggested Japanese artists.
🌞: In terms of music proximity, it wouldn’t be strange if someone who listens to Kpop gets suggested [a Jpop song] but Japan is not in that market at the moment.
MC: Because of the large domestic market of 120 million, no record company or agencies tried to go abroad or do so through streaming…
🌞: They didn’t
MC: And now [the industry] is paying the price for it
🌞: We are.. And I’ve pretty much declared it as an economic problem for the whole country. I don’t think it’s realistic to say, “Well, this happened.. Let’s make a good song and if we get irritated, it’ll reach someone at some point, someone will understand.” There are overseas collaborations, live collaborations, many things, and it goes into the suggestions somewhere.
MC: They are fed into the algorithm on streaming services, if overseas artists collab, like Spotify, Apple Music, or Amazon Music playlists.
🌞: It increases their chances of entering into playlists, and what kind of playlist.
🌞: To be specific, “Let’s get into this playlist”, so like a tree, you put the playlist here. If you do that you appear at quite the top, surprisingly. [And a song being quite at the top of a playlist] is where you can increase your listeners. So if we make good music for that, it’s possible it can go viral. “Oh these kids are trending now”, or “This song is good!” when the listeners increase like this, the next step is countless ways of reaching out. Since their debut, we’ve uploaded countless BE:FIRST’s live performances, Youtube videos. When people click on them.. MVs are important, but I want live performances to be a quicker way of reaching them. By doing that.. And if you watermark their variety contents, [a listener] might go from “I’ve listened to their songs. Their videos are pretty good too. I went to see them live… Ah, these guys are cool!” and “Wow, they do some pretty crazy things in their variety shows, I might wanna support them!” If you can get listeners to reach that point, then I think that kind of person might become a fan. But in order to increase fans, you have to increase listeners first. It's a real problem. And... it’s also a problem for foreign artists who want the Japanese market… Or hope to? My impression of overseas artists that want to work with Japanese artists or do a collab is minimal. The negative aspects of Japan… I’m going to sound pessimistic here. The [Japanese] culture is well protected, so what has been developed in the Galápogos Island has its charms.
Context 6: Galápagos syndrome or the Galápagos Island is a Japanese business term. It refers to businesses or a market (Japan) that is developing in isolation and independently from others. The term "Galápagos" is taken from the name of Galápagos Islands, an island with flora and fauna that was developing independently, isolated from the mainland. (coined by Darwin). It has been used as an analogy and metaphor to describe trends in Japan not just economically, but also in technology and society.
🌞: I do like ninjas and samurais. The beauty and aesthetics of these things are of course, loved culturally, and there are definitely fans of Japan internationally, and quite a couple of them.
MC: But [Japan] needs to be open to streaming first, so that people can listen to [songs] overseas.
🌞: Yes, so people can listen to them.
MC: This is something other agencies in Japan haven’t been able to do, but BMSG has?
🌞: I think it is more commonplace these days, but it stood out even in 2020, at the time the company was founded I think.
MC: Having the full MV uploaded to YouTube, streaming for overseas listeners, wasn’t so mainstream?
🌞: That’s right, and I think agencies that are conservative have quite a strong influence. So there were no foreign companies that had the impression Japanese entertainment companies as a whole were open to the global market.
MC: So you decided to focus on streaming, have collaborations [to] improve recognition abroad. The next phase of that is leaving home ground?
🌞: I think so.
MC: Hold lives and concerts?
🌞: The rest is up to them
MC: And BMSG will enter this phase next year? With BE:FIRST spearheading?
🌞: BE:FIRST will kick it off, BMSG as a whole.. I’m glad that BMSG places importance in guaranteeing quality. Once [the artists] performance-ism is born, everyone else gets good. Being able to guarantee that… really hits me. When [people abroad have] different tastes and the language is different.. When you see a performance, it’s a dance of non-verbal communication. Even though it’s a person [dancing]...
MC: If the quality isn’t world class, they won’t debut
🌞: Quite the opposite, Japan has an environment where there are dance schools all over the country. The security at night is safe enough that children can take lessons. I’m not saying talent isn’t being developed, most of these kids go on to compete. There are a lot of children who are taking these lessons, soaking everything in with their eyes and ears, so I think there are definitely kids who have world-class quality but their talents are asleep. There’s no exit for them, the reason for that being the industry. The kids who I have signed with have world-class quality, but they did not quite fit in with what the existing Japanese entertainment agencies are looking for. They have world-class quality to begin with. Even if they don’t.. I wouldn’t sign them based on how they get on with others, or just from vibes.
MC: So from the time you signed them, they are artists set to go for the world.. I’m sure there’d be a lot of struggles, being abroad and away from home, they may not see the fruits of their efforts until a certain time... So the artists need to have the mental strength to overcome all of that, and that is also the company’s stance, taking in quality [talents] for the short and long-term?
🌞: That’s right
MC: And that’s different from other companies?
🌞: Yes, and I would say this is why I founded this start-up. Like you said, if we succeed as a result [of going abroad], I think it would give us a good counter-argument. It would also be good news for artists from other entertainment companies.
MC: I want to dig deeper into the company’s organizational structure… You are an artist, CEO, and producer. Moreover the company is growing in profit, it looks like things are going well. The company’s producing results; your skills as a CEO are praised; your staff is also continuing to grow – is there moments where you’re one-manning this too much and there might be risks of others having difficulty giving their input?
🌞: This April, I finally started to distribute roles… The rest is.. being ready to get my own ass kicked [boss laughs]
MC: Make it easier to say things
🌞: Two things I think. The first is to fully use your ability to talk [equally / no hierarchy]. The second is, no matter how stupid you are, where you are placed in the [organizational] system, or even without that, with power pretty equally distributed and fixed, you have a right to say something even if you’re a rookie. That is even more true as an artist and producer so I think it’s about being able to educate yourself.
MC: So your executives are able to say, “No, boss I don’t think that’s right,” and voice their opinions?
🌞: Yes.
MC: That’s true for staff too?
🌞: Yes, not just staff but regular employees too
MC: They can also say, “Shacho that’s wrong”
🌞: Yes, I can go, “Because of A and B, wouldn’t it be better if we go AB?”, they can go “Unnnn, I don’t think so” and I ask why, they elaborate and I might go, “Now that you put it that way…” Simply put, “If you do this with this company, good things will happen” and I’d be wondering why couldn't I imagine this. I fundamentally believe that human nature is good, so if there’s something that seems good I think it’ll be good if we do it, but there are staff who have seen proper, negative things. It’s only been four years, but there are employees who have been with us for a while now. When I look at them and the relationship they have with me from our conversations, it's a great reassurance to know that they won't get angry even if you say something to them.
MC: So [your staff] are able to persuade you and convince you that something is different or wrong
🌞: Yeah, I have been persuaded before. Definitely. But you know.. I think the most important thing is sincerity. Sincerity and.. Even I don’t like saying this myself but, a sense of playfulness. [boss laughs, a very loud one] And I could be convinced.
MC: Just by appearances, you’re an artist right? Even though you’re also CEO. Have the criticisms and envy towards you, like “These artists are not gonna last long” and such, stopped?
🌞: No, I think they’re going to keep coming 😂 It can’t be helped I think, if they wanna keep saying it. It happens when you are able to achieve results that make people jealous of you. I think that’s why the people you meet, whether they are in the same industry or not, independent companies or not, young companies – they are all very positive and supportive – they know that if an entertainment company like BMSG succeeds, everyone will be happy. These are older people too, so they all dote on us.
And like you said earlier, I have the appearance of an artist, so that’s a plus sometimes. For example, when I greet people properly and give them my business card – something that is more or less fully in the spirit of business etiquette – I get a, “Wow!” but all I did was something normal!
Or, I meet them today and the next day or day after I send an email at 8am saying it was lovely to see them, I often get, “You’re good! You’re doing this properly!”
MC: You’re doing something totally normal but getting positive feedback for it
🌞: Yes! 😆
MC: I’d be jealous!
🌞: So I think there’s no negative effect, it all becomes positive effect 😆
MC: Your boss said you’ll be competing with the world, has there been anything in you that’s changed? A world class level performance compared to Japan, will mean a different style of battle too, perhaps? Of course, I think you guys will be showing all that you got too, but what do you think, heading for the world next year?
🐬: We’ve always been making music with our eye on the world. Personally for me, I’ve been refining my dance for a long time in order to compete against the world. So I think, “Finally! 🔥” and now that we’ve stated it explicitly, we can show our true potential. I’m looking forward to it.
🦁: There’s a bit of difference between the music boom in Japan and the world. We’ve been doing this for a long time, so we’re confident we can be the bridge between JPop and the world. Show that properly.
MC: What will next year look like?
🦁: It would be the “Year of the Challenge”, we just had a meeting about it yesterday too. It will be a critical year but that doesn’t mean we’re leaving the fans in Japan behind. As a guarantee, we asked ourselves, “Why do we want to go to the world?” [because] we are proud of JPop and want to bring the history and culture of JPop to the world. We want BE:FIRST to be at the forefront of connecting JPop and the world.
🐬: We don’t mind if we start from zero diving to the world. It’s like finally going back to the same place, I’m looking forward to getting back to it. But in the end, like 🦁 said, we want to liven up the Japanese music scene, based on the music we hear in the place we love. We want to do our best with the music from home, so that’s why we want to go overseas, properly, this once, and show people what’s great about Japan.
MC: The North American market is the best entertainment in the world, but where are you aiming?
🦁: It would be the Half-Time Show at the Super Bowl right?
🐬: Whether in sports or culture.. It’s a big stage, to be able to stand on the same line as other cultures and perform music on. It is our biggest dream to be the first in Asia.
MC: How long do you think that will take you?
[ 🐬, 🦁 deep breaths]
🦁: Mmmmmm~ How long~?
🐬: I think our admiration has to stop first of all.
🦁: Ootani-san… 😩
🐬: Every year, we should stop looking at [people they admire] and go, “Wah! So cool!” I don’t want to feel impressed, just focus on what’s in front of me so that even if I’m watching them from afar, my confidence is so strong that I can get to a point where I can look at them [again] and go, “No, we can do this too.”
MC: Will BE:FIRST be making money from overseas in 10 years’ time?
🌞: What does JUNON think?
🐢: We will [boss laughs]. Because we can’t stop and we don’t want to [be] stop[ped].
🐉: One thing I’ve been thinking about recently is music is very different from sports. I’ve been watching soccer a lot recently so I’ve been really into it. It seems like a moment’s play determines your... like, market value. And that’s how the world sees you? Or equals the world, I guess.
🌞: It’s a number
🐉: And music is a more intimate part of everyday life. Like your inner life, and…
🌞: Hard to put a number…
🐉: Hard to put a number. It’s a collection of things that are hard to put a number on, that creates the music.
🌞: Definitely
🐉: So… How do I put it...
🌞: You’re doing good!
🐉: It's not just about making good music; it's about being evaluated as a company. I think that's really important.
🌞: That’s right! 🐨 do your best!
MC: We’ll leave the ending for you / 🌞: End it good!
🐨: Why why why? I’m the next president or something?
[boss laughs]
MC: Can you give your job title?
🦺(Matsuo Taisei, Management Section 2): Yes, I’m BE:FIRST’s chief manager
MC: What do you do as a chief manager?
🦺: Basically, everything that BE:FIRST does other than singing and dancing. Managing their schedule, their condition physically or mentally, and so forth with a team of managers.
MC: When it comes to managers in entertainment, it’s like they are glued to their artist’s in their private life, and move as one with the artist, is that how it’s like?
🦺: In that sense, we are completely separate [entities] here.
MC: What do you mean by that?
🦺: I do agree in the sense that a pro artist should have a pro manager, so does my team and my office. But if a member has a request during private / off hours to get them something and take it to their house, we do not accept them or do them.
MC: Next year, BE:FIRST is going off to the world. The battle in Japan and the battle with the world is, of course, different, is it different for you, from a manager’s perspective?
🦺: It is… I don’t know if I’ll put it as a fight / battle, but the way people know about their music, domestically and internationally is really different, and varies by country. I feel the struggles of this battle the most when speaking with foreign promoters.
MC: It is difficult?
🦺: I think it’s very difficult. When people see BE:FIRST, I was quite surprised about the discrepancy between the positive impressions people have of them in Japan, and the positive impressions people have of them overseas. When you ask fans after a live what stood out to them, Japanese fans would say, “When this member is singing!” but in America they would say, “When this member is performing!”. So what they look at, what they find charming of the members and their performance and what they like, is different.
MC: So for BE:FIRST English is pretty much mandatory for them?
🦺: Emmmmm, about thatttt 😅 But you know, even switching the position, we’re grateful and happy when artists overseas learn Japanese and speak it. So it’s the bottom line and essential that they know the words and manners – to protect ourselves and for people overseas to like us 😊 At least I personally think it should be like that.
MC: Right, because eventually you’d want them to use English for interviews and use English to interact with the local fans. How are they right now?
🦺: They are working very hard, including me 😄
MC: So today you’re acting as producer?
🌞: In some ways yes, but [this is] different from BE:FIRST and MAZZEL, we’re all solo artists that gathered together, so I’m standing with them today.
MC: You stand on stage as equals?
🌞: Yes, 🦀 would even call me “Dacchan” off-stage.
🦀: !!!
[boss laughs]
🦀: Not Dacchan! Mikkun, Mikkun!
🌙: He called you “Mikkun” a while back too 👀
[boss laughs]
🌞: How come.. How come if Dacchan doesn’t fly you go with Mikkun?
MC: So on days like today, being on stage, it doesn’t matter if you’re the CEO
🦀: Rather than doesn’t matter… [boss stare] No no no, that’s not it.
[boss laughs]
😈: It’s the standard
MC: You’re equals
🦀: Yeah, like rather than a CEO, we’re all friends
😈: I’m the senpai here by the way 😤
MC: So not the boss…
🦀: Yes, to me, boss is like a god to me!
[All laugh]
- Google Calendar blocks in white and blue = main focus
- Red = His artists’ schedule, different artist = different colour
[I think he says you're also supposed to look at it top to bottom, right to left 😂 🙏 ]
[And obviously with all those overlaps, he is multi-multi-tasking and heading over to his artist’ gig if his schedule allows]
🌞: If I were to break it down strictly, I could separate it, but on average there should be 7-8 hours of meetings per day. I feel like about half of my work is as a CEO, and the other half as a producer and an artist. [He would describe the ratio as 5:3:2 but in terms of how he feels which one he’s doing, he thinks he’s doing all 3 at the same time.]
MC: Your company’s pretty flat in terms of managers and artists. In the industry a common view for a long time is the manager looks after the artist even in their private life. BMSG doesn’t do that at all?
Context 7: “Flat” here meaning equal
🌞: That’s right. We’re all the same, crews on a ship together. If there’s people who cook, then there are people who fix things or map out the route. Just that our roles are different.
MC: What does your day look like? Meetings, meetings, recording, artist activities?
🌞: I wonder.. I’m always doing something.
MC: What about days off? 2 days? (Weekends)
🌞: I have zero off days. I don’t really rest. I’ll take 3-4 days off in January but…
MC: Oh true, you’re [with BE:FIRST] at Kouhaku.
🌞: Yes, after that I kind of rest and I kinda do my best after [resting].
MC: When did you last rest?
🌞: This year?............................................ Around the summer? I find it difficult to rest completely. I need to do something.
MC: Going back to our conversation earlier, I think our viewers are going to be quite shocked that [the charts and industry] is still so dependent on CDs…
🌞: It’s a lot easier after getting off [of that dependence]. That said, how to face the charts will be the question…
MC: Inevitably, BMSG still has to sell CDs?
🌞: If I think about label and promotions I don’t really think releases have to chart at number 1 necessarily. I just wonder if there’s something better…
MC: But right now you’d still have to sell CDs?
🌞: Yes, we just don’t depend on them. But this isn’t about us not being affected… There are talents that can only be saved if the entire music industry changes.
🌞: I don’t think Japan is in a place to be complacent [about digital platforms / streaming].
MC: They fall? Ah, you mean they need to climb up the [spider’s] thread
🌞: Yes, climb
MC: [So the destination after the climb] is hope? They have to climb it?
🌞: [The thread] is very thin though
Context 8: Boss and the MC is alluding to the Japanese folklore, "Kumo no Ito / Spider’s Thread" here. It is a story that teaches the lesson that one shouldn't be self-centered / selfish because what you do may come back at you as punishment.
MC: There are lots of artists, so they all gotta climb that very thin thread, in order to be noticed they have to climb the thread [towards] music [streaming] platforms…
🌞: Because.. Nothing can happen if [people] aren’t listening, right. Thanks to the Internet, there are numerous ways to monetize entertainment. I’m not kidding when I say it’s infinite. That said, before monetizing you got to have people listening, create that environment where they can listen. In the past, that would have been on TV, the radio, or magazine spreads and that would’ve been it. The proliferation of streaming services has changed the business model but it has changed the distance between music and people too. So I think it’s hope.
MC: But you’re saying Japanese music industry doesn’t really use streaming services?
🌞: Didn’t
MC: And that created the gap between Japan and the world?
🌞: It did. [Japan] wasn’t ready for renovation from the start, so unless sales go up it isn’t going to change the situation much…
MC: What will you be talking about with Spotify Japan at this event?
🌞: Ironically, I feel like I will need to explain in an easy-to-understand way, the story of how much the [Japanese] CD business is strangling the [Japanese] music industry and killing it.
MC: [The industry] sells CD with special bonuses, handshake events to make sales, you’re saying this is harmful?
🌞: Very harmful. From an environmental view, it’s probably not enough, and.. How should I put it, exploiting fans’ passionate desire to support an artist for the charts. Isozaki-san from Billboard [Japan] will be there so I think it would be exciting to talk about [this] with him. The return rate to a chart’s number 1 encourages people to buy the same thing, but it’s old media, old-fashion media, so the return rate to the artist is far lower than goods. If everyone spent all the money they had on CDs on goods [instead], the life of the artist they support would probably twice or three times better. Maybe that’s not the case here, goods have varying profit margins is one thing, but it would be twice or three times cheaper to live [for the artist and fans]. I think that’s one of the main reasons why BMSG, even though it is just a start-up, was able to invest all the money it received and allow our artists to reach the top, in terms of artist income in a year.
When I compare BE:FIRST with other artists and other groups, even though we stopped bonuses, the latest BE:FIRST single sold about 100K copies. Nowadays, there are still artists who sell 500K or 1M copies, but I think BE:FIRST’s income is higher.
MC: The ranking has changed a bit for Billboard (Japan). Did you focus on that because they have other rankings besides CDs, like streaming?
🌞: Yes, and BE:FIRST has songs that ranked first on the Billboard charts even though there wasn’t a physical release.
MC: So you focus on streaming.
🌞: Yes, streaming.. Radio and download, of course. It’s changed a bit but… It’s like the chicken or egg question. Due to the low number of registrants the percentage of points reflected on CDs has been dropping significantly over the years. I would think it’s better to lower the percentage [of points for CDs]…
MC: Have existing agencies or record labels stopped you?
🌞: Rather than that, what I found interesting was because the percentage [points for CD sales] won’t drop, it’s why the shift to streaming has been stagnant. If the number of streaming is what it is now, and the streaming percentage is too high, the chart will become fixed. The fact that there’s not a lot of people streaming means it’s difficult for the chart to flow / change, because there are too few threats to one hit song. Even if you look at the Spotify chart for this week you can definitely see that it’s fixed.
MC: So if a winning artist enters the chart, it’s hard to [top them]
🌞: Yes, and for Spotify or fixed charts like this, it means the state of the [music] industry is stagnant. For Spotify, something like this is not beneficial, however, the sales of CDs is reflected on the charts. For fans, this gives them a sense of success – it’s easy to understand that right? “The huge number of CDs I bought helped them get to number 1 on the chart!” I think that gives [fans] a great sense of accomplishment. I think the industry has created this situation that we can’t get out of.
MC: So even though there’s a shift towards streaming, [Japanese] music industry still places importance on CDs?
🌞: For record companies… They have nothing else they can sell. If the rate of people streaming is comparable to the U.S., for example, it will really change the game. If that happens I think we will see an economic revival of the music scene and [problems now] would be resolved, but with the current system the way it is…. Do people even have CD players in their house these days? If this battle over CD [sales] continues… Unless we end this, the music industry cannot grow in a healthy way.
MC: There’s not going to be new growth in sales if [the industry] relies on this CD business model.
🌞: Definitely not, because it’s not like there are more people listening to CDs. As a business [model], it has died once. The businesses that expanded [on this model] are also dead… Industry insiders are aware that the music industry is dysfunctional, but.. When I talk to other artists, it’s difficult to do anything outside of this quarter / year’s evaluation, evaluation from your higher-ups, evaluation from the parent company, current performance, right? So everyone is biting their lower lip during meetings. [They’ll tell me,] “We also think it’s not good to continue like this, but….” This is a huge phase of illness that I really want to believe is not too late for the music industry [to recover from].
Context 9: SKY-HI uses “背に腹で Se ni hara de”, the full proverb being “背に腹は代えられぬ Se ni hara wa kaerarenu”, literally, it translates to using your back to protect your internal organs. In context, it means sacrificing one thing in order to protect another thing.
Tony Elison talks about starting from understanding the fans – rely on the listeners and how and what they listen to. He also suggests focusing on streaming and premieres in marketing and promotions plans, the industry supports it. In a sense, it’s the next phase after a key object.
SKY-HI talks about Bling-Bang-Bang-Born, even though physical CD sales were only about 10K for the song, by focusing on streaming, it became a hit song in Japan, a song everyone was listening to.
He also talks about the benefit of being able to see the data [monthly listeners, statistics, etc.] on streaming services, as someone who is managing an entertainment company. He says it’s extremely helpful because the more accurate the data, the clearer the measures he can take for sales and how effective they can be.
Panel MC: I think everyone here knows what SKY-HI has proposed, details are on his [company] homepage, what was the reaction like?
🌞: Long story short, I think the practice of exploiting a fandom, a fan’s genuine feelings of support, to get one person to buy 100, 200 CDs that include special bonuses, in terms of plastic waste too – simply to up [sale] numbers – is something that needs to change. I threw this question to everyone and I’ve continued to say this. I think there may be some people in this room who wonder if this is right / OK, but a reaction I was happily surprised about is that I didn’t offend anyone.
🌞: I think this CD business model is at its limit, we have to change this, environmentally too. It also stands in the way of an artist’s health and growth. It’s like we’re the Titanic, we see the iceberg but we aren’t able to steer the helm in a different direction and we’re going to sink any minute. I said this very matter-of-factly, so I wondered if [the reception] will be OK, but whether inside or outside the industry, particularly music industry insiders, told me, “Thank you for saying this,” so I think that was a huge relief.
Isozaki: There’s also the fact that Oricon’s rankings gets reported by media the most (and therefore what fans check), and that’s how the business / work flow has operated. The fandom also feels they have to buy the exact number of CDs in order [for their artists] to get on it.
🌞: Yes, the feeling of accomplishment in getting their artist to number 1 on the chart by buying large amounts of CDs must be incomparable for the fans and gives them a sense of success. I don’t think it’s black and white, I strongly feel we should move towards a grey that leans towards white. I do think the industry is abusing fans’ feelings of support through this CD business model.
Isozaki: Around the first half of 2022, fandom activity was overheated in the form of “chart hacking”, there was an increase to the number of streams from fans. It’s a campaign that rides on fans’ actions to increase the number of streaming views / listens. For example, it encourages people to listen to the song 3,000 or 5,000 times in a week, and then they give them something as a gift. Spotify and Apple [Music] were the quickest to respond when this happened. From them and other DSP (Digital Service Providers), there were people saying, “Is a campaign like this going to reflect on the charts?”
At the same time, we also noticed unusual movements in our own charts [Billboard Japan]. So we started to think about what we should do about this. We looked at the singles that had abnormal increase in sales as our cases and had discussions about this in April and May [,2022]. That same time, we also asked streaming companies if they could respond in some way, i.e. reduce the frequency on songs that they are campaigning for, or subtract the streaming counts on the DSPs when data is submitted. When we did that though, we got told, “You’re just Billboard chart, what right have you got?”
🌞: Wow, and this is 2022 you said?
Isozaki: And, “You’re just a chart, you don’t need to state your intentions to DSPs or record companies.”
I thought, “Well no, even if they say that it can't be helped because the chart is off.” We had to respond in various ways, the DSPs in Japan running the campaign also responded in various ways to those running [this kind of] campaign. However, its reflection in the numbers [in the charts] were not that great. The number of songs that have abnormal numbers have increased.
Panel MC: Meaning campaigns that encourage increasing streaming counts are still happening?
Isozaki: That’s right.
🌞: I can understand there are things you can’t sacrifice, “We have to do this” or “We can’t afford to see our numbers drop this much”, I can understand that a businessman’s philosophy doesn’t work. But, if there’s a campaign for views, a dishonest form of gaining numbers, it results in a process of crushing each other’s pie and hinders healthy growth [in this industry]. Just like what I said about CD business model, it’s not black or white but leaning towards a grey that is whiter. I’m not saying you have to do this or you mustn’t do that, I’m just thinking how much easier this will be if everyone does it. I’m not discrediting their methods, but I think it’s safe to say the artist’s growth is not what comes out of campaigns like this.
Isozaki: Regarding overenthusiastic [fans], wouldn't Mr. Hidaka be given an honorific title?
🌞: You’re bitter
Isozaki: You don’t think it’s contradictory to create super fans?
🌞: I don’t think so. For instance, a BE:FIRST song that saw the most growth in numbers on streaming was their [song] in 2022, “Bye-Good-Bye”. The numbers gradually increased in the second and third week, not upon release. The number of listeners increased from there, so how to turn those listeners into fans? [BE:FIRST’s] performances. How do you turn those fans into super fans? Contents besides their songs. How do you monetize those super fans? There are honestly many ways to do this.
🌞: As much as we’d like to be number one on the charts, we aren’t running away from it, but I really want to stop being in a situation where I can only choose one or the other – CD or number of streaming counts. Like, do I completely withdraw from the battle for #1 on the charts or not aim for #1 on the charts, or do I have to take part in the battle? I want to break down these two choices. I really want to [make] this black and white [turn into] a grey that is whiter.
Context 10: Isozaki-san was implying that it is contradictory for SKY-HI to "create" super fans, because this feeds into the cycle of excessive streaming and spending. SKY-HI is saying his "super fans" are different because his is birthed from organic, gradual increase in interest in an artist through other content (besides a song) rather than a harder push for said fans to get songs to chart at #1
[Projected on the screen]
There are people in the company who can look out for an artist at the start of their career / debut but there aren’t [enough] employees right now to think / plan out an artist’s career around the middle [say, 2-3 years in].
Something about goods here and how people might miss it and 🌞 thinks it’s a shame. Since 1 picture [of goods] can mean 10 or 20 million yen, put out what they have, but also hold back where needed. We are indies in our hearts, but our slogan is, “To be professional.” So keep your eyes peeled, don’t miss anything.
🌞: I can understand it from your point of view, “You guys made it in a carefree way,” and that’s enough… But I think we need to be careful how we deliver it once [the goods] are made. I think a note that says, “The [goods] arrived and the members kinda checked it” is not quite it.
Sakai Keisuke (Management section 1): Even when they come up with the goods right, it’s also somewhat casual. Maybe a team they can talk to about the formatting… [not sure about this either]
🌞: A manager in charge of merchandise (MD) would be good, right? You can either use whoever we have currently or hire someone new.
Manager (Management Section ?): They can probably do that alongside promotions
🌞: Yeah
[On the screen]
🌞: Not saying BE:FIRST don’t have common sense, I can understand them, but some of them didn’t have experience [working / communicating] in society from when they auditioned. And then they grow up like that. There’s a saying right, even when you’re over 30 years old in entertainment you somehow still act like a kid. Y’all are probably thinking, “You’re not the one to say~”
[BOD laugh]
🌞: Don’t look at me like, “You’re not the one to say~”
BOD: No no no~
🌞: I think there are a lot of [entertainers] who are over 30 but act like kids. I can understand that but I think you have to be aware that you gotta mature or… what is it…
🌞: I hope everyone grows up and matures 🥺
🌞: For artists, if the same person keeps saying the same thing it becomes less effective, right? Aside from those who keep saying the same thing, sometimes I think the best person [to say something] is someone who is difficult to talk to. Distance is difficult isn’t it. It’s not fun to be constantly intimidated by a manager but if you don’t find the manager scary, you don’t feel tense.
MC: How is the company organization like? Do you guys depend on one person?
Keisuke (Management section 1): In this year alone, 20-30 people have joined us and we’re still hiring for more.
MC: There’s not enough?
Keisuke: Yes, we are still accepting applications.
MC: If your boss goes out of control are you guys able to stop him?
Keisuke: He doesn’t really go out of control, he’s quite calm and collected when he’s making decisions so it doesn’t happen much – he’s just like how you saw in the BOD meeting, he creates a space where it’s easier for people to voice their input.
MC: What do you think are the challenges for the company?
Hamamoto Yuumi (Management section 4 / Trainee’s BASE): Probably human resources. All of us have quite a lot on our plate and we’re all focused on what’s in front of us. So sometimes, like [boss] mentioned in the meeting, some things may spill over, even if we’re all working hard.
MC: I see, so artists can come in here and make songs
🌞: They can. There’s mics here for them to record their voices too. We’ve been taken care of a lot by this spot.
MC: And you’ve made a number of songs here?
🌞: We have, including those that have been released.
MC: You’ve been here and probably there too!
🌞: Yes, I’ve been in all places.
MC: So you have all the equipment and facilities you need right in your own company
🌞: Yes. It’s huge that we have this.
MC: But to have all this equipment all set up must’ve costed quite a lot
🌞: Yes, it’s weird to say this but… if you think about it in, “We can earn it back with one hit song….”
MC: As a music company of course!
🌞: Investing in making something that [can] make a lot of good music is probably cheap at any price! This was something we got to have, this was the first thing I invested in.
MC: How many can fit in there?
🌞: 4-5 maybe?
MC: It’s huge! So everyone practices here?
🌞: Yes. When I was looking for [an office] and saw this ceiling I thought there weren’t a lot like it. So when I found this I really wanted it.
MC: So everyone in BE:FIRST practices here?
🌞: They do. I’m thankful that our artists feel like this is their space too.
MC: By the way that is…
🌞: The gym. To go to the gym, you go through [the dance] studio, you can also see what happens at the [dance] studio [from the gym]. It encourages communication.
MC: They can see what other artists are doing [in the dance studio]
🌞: They can. Whether they are solo artists or in a group, they are more than friends? Comrades. Comrades aboard the same ship.
MC: There will be two groups next year, making that four groups. There are five soloists, including yourself.
🌞: I’m actually looking for a new weapon
[There’s a question here from the MC I don’t quite get]
MC: To put it in a different way, things are going really well right now, if there’s a risk what is it?
🌞: As an entertainment company, we don’t sell things right? It’s about people. So I think the biggest risk is our creativity is not what fans expect. And… I don’t know when that will come, but when my own sense doesn’t match with the times, because [time] is fluid. 10 years ago I was often told, “Your sense is cool but it’s not gonna be trendy in Japan!” Now that it’s been 10 years, I think there are times when my sense matches with Japan. 10 years from now, I’ll still be creating and nurturing artists, not only running the company, but probably also thinking about who will take over as a producer. I’m sure I’ll still be working pretty hard 10 years from now.
MC: I’m sure
🌞: At that time, I think we need to be in a situation where we are able to properly train a new producer.
MC: For the future of the company
🌞: Yes
Context 11: The literal translation would’ve been boss came at the right time with the right gears (haguruma ga atteru) so I took liberties with this so that the translation flowed better here.
Hope you enjoyed this very long interview!
Please note I translate these for free and I'm not a professional, so they may not be super perfect.
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Compared to the interview in 2023 that talked about the state of the Japanese entertainment and music industry, the interview in 2024 focused on SKY-HI and BMSG's goals to expand overseas, what they've discovered and what their plans are. The interview also features SKY-HI discussing at length about Japanese music industry's reliance on the CD business model and a need to move to streaming services to keep the industry sustainable and functioning.
Also included in the interview in 2024 is a tour of the new BMSG office as well as interviews with BMSG Artists (BE:FIRST) and BMSG managers (Section 1, 2, 4, Trainee's Base).
On December 25, 2024, the full interview - one hour 27 minutes - was available on YouTube for 48 hours, the version that remains is an abridged, 26 minutes version.
The full interview is available on TV Tokyo's World Business Satellite's website (VPN required).
The BMSG Company and Finances
- Staff count: ~80 employees
🌞: [Working space / hours] is free address with core-flex, so everyone’s everywhere
Context 1: “Free address” is Japanese for hot-desk or desk-sharing
Context 2: “Core flex” is Japanese for flextime with core hours staff need to be in the office
Company started with just him as the sole employee
🌞: So the postal address was my house 😂. Then around 5~7 in a house…
MC: To now your own building
🌞: Yes
MC: And you bought this [building] right?
🌞: Yes
MC: How much did it cost?
🌞:... Can I say this actually? I’ve heard that my credibility has increased as the company grows. The bank told me I can lend my own money. So the bank lent the money to BMSG after I purchased the building myself.
MC: OK, so you could buy [the building] under your name and get a loan from the bank. The bank lent you money because the company's profit growth was sufficiently guaranteed, enough [for you] to buy this building.
🌞: After all, the capital structure of BMSG is already equal to Hidaka, so if the company is growing, it is the same to lend [money] to the company as it is to lend to me. Since the money is lent to me, BMSG doesn’t get burned to the ground [from this purchase]. So, pretty much, I bought it and I’m lending it to BMSG.
Context 3: In layman terms, boss bought the BMSG building under his name / bank account rather than the company's one so that the expense is under his name / bank account and not the company's. He is also therefore leasing the building to BMSG, this is reflected in BMSG's bookkeeping.
BMSG Net Profits
MC: So BMSG is heading into its fifth year
🌞: Yes
MC: And what I have here is:
- BMSG started off with a deficit of approximately 20 million yen.
- Second year, the operating profit was around 1 billion yen.
- It was over 1.2 billion yen in the third.
The 2024 fiscal year (June, 2024) shows an approximate net profit of over 1.995 billion yen. Have you seen the results?
🌞: I have. The fifth year after the start-up period is usually the most critical time. The fifth and sixth year are crucial. I have to admit I’m pulling out all stops.
MC: At the current rate of profit growth, the company will exceed 2 billion by the end of the financial year ending June, 2025.
🌞: That’s right. I say it will be critical because if the profits made so far are to be expected, then the second investment phase will come. [Investment and] loss of new artists and their promotions… For artists who have already achieved results in Japan, their overseas activities… All in all, I think there will be an increase in expenditures around 9, maybe 10 figures. So I’m not aiming for net profit growth in the next fiscal year (June 2025). I think the answer will come in the following fiscal year (June, 2026).
MC: But the answer will reveal itself around this time next year?
🌞: I think to some extent, the answer will be there this time next year
MC: Are you going to invest most of this 2 billion profit into overseas expansion?
🌞: A third into overseas expansion; two thirds will be in new artists and getting them off to a good start.
MC: So you started off with a deficit of 20 million yen to now with an over 2 billion yen in profit.
🌞: The huge thing is we are growing every year and we are able to properly grow our business structure while our profits increased. It means we’re growing in a healthy way, I think it’s the ideal form and success in line with the achievement I was aiming for at the start.
MC: You also invested 100 million yen under your name, you’ve earned back pretty much all of that right?
🌞: Yes. At this point, I don’t know what comes in and what goes out 😂 I don’t use much of my personal money, but I do know I’ve gotten it back.
Overseas Numbers, Expansion, and Goals
MC: BMSG is aiming for overseas as an entertainment company and music company. What is the ratio of overseas sales to total sales?
🌞: I want to preface this with some words of wisdom, it’s not nearly enough. Internet streaming services, music video, YouTube ads are our main source [of profit], but it’s not at a stage where it stands out as a profit. But, on streaming services and music videos on Youtube – when you can view these for free – the numbers are increasing, nationally too. In percentage, which may look flat at a glance, but [overseas numbers] is the same, sometimes even more, than domestic growth. It is even more pronounced since the beginning of this year. To be more precise, probably from the latter half of last year, the overseas numbers are increasing. As for what / where, there are months where about 40% of numbers on streaming services are overseas. The number of people listening to us is increasing, I think we need to link it to actual numbers [in profit] somewhere. In my case, I have to do this by mobilizing staff for the live tours; by making [listeners] want the merchandise. By making them want the merchandise it makes them want to see the live shows. I’m currently thinking, “What can we / I do to make people in other countries want to see our live performances?” “How much work can you do to make people overseas want to buy the merchandise?” something like that.
MC: Is it true then that in order to make a profit, you have to do a live, earn money from ticket sales, and sell merchandise there?
🌞: Hmmm, I think so. And it depends on the country too, so it’s hard to say overseas, even. An approach for America, an approach for Europe, an approach for Southeast Asia, for East Asia… It’s a big change but I think one of the most important one in terms of the global economic market if you go to Asia or Southeast Asia.. What people want the most right now is not profit but actual numbers, to be honest. There is an influx of this in streaming, so if there’s an increase in streaming in the future, the number of views / plays that can be guaranteed as our base will increase drastically, I want to build on that.
MC: By numbers you mean [one] listener who listens to a song and the view counts on videos?
🌞: Yes, I want to increase those numbers. Of course the artist [and me] are happy if you listen to them 10 times, 100 times. I want to make songs where you want to listen to them 100 times so I’m grateful but if the unique [numbers] don’t increase it’s a headache, [since] there’s a limit to people’s time. I think if you can get [numbers up for] streaming and music videos on YouTube in Asia and Southeast Asia, where there’s explosive population growth in the weaker areas, the numbers will be more meaningful than sales in the long term, no, even mid-term.
MC: Ashizawa Noriko-san of Spotify Japan told Nikkei Entertainment that the core listener group of BE:FIRST are millennials, but the listeners overall is well-balanced across wide age groups. In particular, their overseas listener ratio is the one of the highest out of Japan’s boy groups at 40%.
🌞: 40% right? Yes.
MC: Japan is, of course, on the top of the list, but this is followed by
#2 America
#3 Germany
#4 Indonesia, and
#5 Brazil. America is #2!
🌞: Yes…
MC: Is [BE:FIRST] considerably well-seen in America? They listen [to BE:FIRST]?
🌞: I think so. I don’t think this can be called a success yet, but in terms of variables there were a lot of various factors that allowed the numbers to go up in the US between 2023 and now – it’s still continuing. We’re still… Listeners and fans are different, aren’t they? There is no doubt that the listeners are increasing, so it’s a matter of getting them to become fans and to think that it’s worth it… hmmm, like a distinctive appeal? 2026 will be BE:FIRST’s fifth year since debut, if at that time articles like “JPop sensation” appear in US media, I think the situation will change considerably.
MC: So BE:FIRST hasn’t earned revenues from the live in North America.
🌞: Yes, I think our first approach will be the world tour tentatively set for spring, 2025. This is another reason why Japanese artists cannot continue to expand overseas on an ongoing basis, because it does take much more time and money than organizing a live in Japan. For example, in Japan, they can get 100K people for a two-day show in Tokyo Dome, whereas in North America, [maybe] they can get a few thousand? One would think it’s already great to get a few thousand people in America right? If you keep doing that, you can get 10K then 20K people, then you start seeing stadiums. When you get to stadiums in the US, it really, truly, changes the order of magnitude. That said, the economic situation is completely different.
MC: That’s true, even the price of a ticket is totally different.
🌞: Yes, very different ticket prices, and are you gaining that as yen or [US] dollars too 😂
MC: True, you can make the money in [US] dollars. With the yen being weaker, you could have substantial sales.
🌞: I could, yes. It’s easy to think about it, right? And it’s easy for everyone to imagine that, isn’t it? It’s how everyone does it in Japan – live houses, halls, arenas, then DON! Dome! I think you can imagine that for the US as well, but all of the money, time, and [artists’] fatigue, you’ve filled up three months. Can [the company] continue to invest close to 1 billion yen for 2-3 years non-stop by spending the 1 billion yen on those 3 months? And making a ton of profit? In the end, I know we will be able to recoup a lot, but I don’t think there are many companies that are ready to throw away 2-3 years’ worth of 1 billion yen so easily.
MC: If you want to make 1 billion yen for a two-day show at Tokyo Dome in the short term, well, you can do it. But you know there are bigger profits in the overseas market. In order to grab a hold of that, you have to start with a few thousand people, maybe a small arena tour in the U.S, which you think will take 2-3 years?
🌞: Yes
MC: And no company has the strengths [financially or human resources] to withstand that
🌞: I won’t put it as, “no company has the strengths to withstand it”, but I do think it takes a lot of courage.
MC: Yes, it might fail.
🌞: Yes, BMSG truly is a start-up in that sense. I built this and said from the beginning, we’re doing this kind of thing, so I think it won’t be a bad influence on the company and people are brave enough to see us off.
Context 4: “Halation” in Japanese business terminology is “causing a bad influence” in business, whether in the context of mistakes, troubles, or negative factors impacting the environment / health of a company.
MC: A normal entertainment company might consider the prospect of going to the U.S., make a lot of money for a number of years, but it’s risky and time-consuming.
🌞: Yes, and your immediate profits drop. Moreover, when it comes to artists who can take on challenges abroad, they are basically artists with numbers in Japan, aren't they? In other words, they are definitely the breadwinners for any agency, so I think the possibility of losing their mainstay is scary.
MC: If you were a mainstream artist, you could make 1 billion yen for a two-day show in Tokyo Dome.
🌞: Yes, even if it’s not profitable, you still make sales.
MC: If you do a national tour, you can certainly make some money…
🌞: The profit is already there, it’ll be outrageous
MC: Why all this trouble of going abroad then? We tend to think, “don’t tread on troubled waters”
🌞: That’s true
MC: But BMSG is different?
🌞: Yes
MC: You’re aiming for overseas
🌞: Yes, but this is also a matter of course. BMSG is only five years old. When you think about the next 5, 10, 20 years as the population continues to dwindle (in Japan), it won’t be possible for a company to grow if it can’t gain foreign currency. This isn’t limited to the entertainment industry, right? So I think we have to do something somewhere. Japan needs to be rejuvenated, and needs to increase its national strength. To do that, at the bare minimum, a company needs to be capable of earning foreign currency. If we don’t do this, we won’t have a happy future.
MC: So BMSG is developing artists that can earn money in [US] dollars.
🌞: No, it doesn’t have to be [US] dollars really.
MC: Your [artists] will earn money in various national currencies
🌞: Yes.
MC: When the yen has been depreciating so much, do the ticket prices differ considerably both domestically and abroad?
🌞: Yes. It's quite different at home and abroad, and it was SNS that made me realise that the current economic situation in Japan is quite critical. SNS these days, especially X, you’ll see posts from people you don’t follow right. In one post I saw, it said, “The money available for oshikatsu has clearly changed between three years ago and now.”
MC: Does that mean it's decreasing?
🌞: It's decreasing.
Context 5: Oshikatsu means supporting your oshi by purchasing goods, attending live events, etc.
No Money for “oshikatsu” 😢
MC: The money Japanese people can use for oshikatsu is decreasing
🌞: It’s decreasing and because they said it, I thought [back to] a few years earlier if [goods] come out I’d want everything. So, it’s not a “I won’t buy this~” but a, “I have no choice but to give up on this” now. It seems they had to give up on [oshikatsu]. When I saw the post about the amount of money available for oshikatsu was clearly decreasing between three years ago and now, I thought, “Of course. It’s natural.” The Japan’s economy is clearly different now than it was four years ago when this company started. Entertainment has the power to energise a country, it can improve a country’s economic situation – it has the power to make a company expand into a global one than staying domestic, S.Korea has already proven this. Under this looming situation, we’re finally getting down to business – [going] overseas, with everyone [together]. I don’t really want to monopolize the market or be in a warring situation, not at all. We all want to make Japan better. I really, truly, want to improve Japan’s economy.
MC: Like you said, compared to 3 years ago the amount of money one fan can spend has changed? I’m sure you see the numbers in goods and merchandise.
🌞: It has changed quite a lot. The energy during debut was, of course, high. For example the numbers now, you might think “Isn’t this perfect?” but fans are people with a normal income, you interact with these people across the country. That’s why I’m not just an executive, but an artist and producer, when I’m a producer, I am in the audience along with the fans. When I’m an artist I’m looking at [the BMSG artists] on stage. When I’m an executive I only look at the numbers. I think, from my point of view, we are definitely getting poorer.
MC: So the amount of money one fan can spend on goods and merch has decreased. Because of COVID, the cost of living has already gone up as well. Ticket prices too?
🌞: Yes.. When the prices go up, the number of equipment and materials we can use for a single gig can still be huge. Take a single cord, even a 0.5 yen increase will be outrageous. Moreover, there are a lot of imported goods.
MC: With the weak yen…
🌞: It's crazy
MC: It gets expensive.
🌞: Even once you raise the ticket prices.. It’s still severe compared to 3-4 years ago. I don’t know if anyone who has gone to lives before can tell that the LED screens have gotten a little smaller? Equipment and materials are definitely rising in price. I also feel like the air is different. The pace in which the word “budget” is mentioned in the production team and live production team has increased a little from three years ago. Of course, it’s my decision, as an entrepreneur, whether or not I go beyond our budget. But I think there are conversations coming up where 3 years ago would not have been discussed, related to budget.
MC: Although there is naturally a certain amount of price shifting in tickets, but profits are still tight.
🌞: Yes, that's right. And what makes me sad is mmm… an artist’s responsibility… For example, if the ticket price is 10K yen, you’d think, “I can watch this live at 10K? That’s cheap!!”, it’s that responsibility. The responsibility lies with the artist not to make people think that 10,000 yen is too much, but I think this hurdle is getting higher and higher.. Ticket prices are rising but income is decreasing due to an influx of newcomers. So there’s an increasing number of people who are interested but can’t go [to a live / event]. From an economic standpoint, it’s a loss but it’s a serious problem because the essence of entertainment… We want to reach 8 billion people. We are making things that we think should reach 8 billion people.. But because of the economy, there are people who can’t get there.
MC: The data from Spotify (Japan) shows you’ve got a decent number of overseas listeners, but it’s not profitable [yet].
🌞: That’s right. Streaming and master recording businesses will grow in the future. I think once [listeners] become fans, we can provide them with a number of monetization methods as we want from our end. The most symbolic of this – and one with an overwhelmingly high rate of return to the artists – is merchandise and fan clubs. We are financially dependent on those two things, but how to increase the number of listeners and create a route for those listeners to become fans is something I’ve been thinking about constantly.
MC: So would you say that you’re at the stage where you’re planting the seeds at the moment?
🌞: Ah~ Yes yes. I think that is completely true in overseas markets. Probably a large percentage of the Japanese listeners who are currently listening to BE:FIRST, BE:FIRST is their “Top Artist”... What I mean is, there are people who listen to us through a stream of overseas artists, so for most overseas listeners, BE:FIRST isn’t their “Top Artist”, they may or may not be in the Top Five.
MC: They may be listening to BTS or something
🌞: That’s a high possibility, yes. So I can understand that the percentage of [BE:FIRST] being in the “Top Artist” is not that high [overseas]. In Japan, the ratio of BE:FIRST [being “Top Artist”] is really high. The strong loyalty of the fans is our most important asset. Even though they are a group born from an audition and weren’t at their peak at debut... But [BE:FIRST] has been steadily growing since then, which is… how should I put it, They're reliable, and the company has them as a great guarantee.
MC: Do you think next year will be the year when BE:FIRST finally start expanding overseas in earnest and make money abroad?
🌞: I think next year is still an investment phase. But as a company, there are two main things. First, is the creation of new artists, two of which are highly praised, now that they are debuting and have releases. The second is that existing artists have been able to establish their own music styles and their own fanbases. If what we have been doing is right, the gift will come at some point.
MC: Earlier, you said you’ll become a company that earns foreign currencies.
[boss laughs]
MC: How much money do you see the company earning abroad in the future? More than half?
🌞: I think it will. But in the future… It depends on how many years from now. If I think about the economic situation of Southeast Asia in roughly 10 years’ time, I think being able to compete there will result in that.
The Japanese music industry & Streaming
MC: Is there a method to earning money overseas?
🌞: For overseas, we talked about creating fans right? To create fans, you need to increase the listeners. In order for Japanese artists to reach [overseas] listeners is actually very difficult. What the Japanese entertainment companies, music labels have done up to now… Is the majority has taken a backwards look at streaming.
MC: [Streaming] is supposed to mean that anyone around the world can listen…
🌞: Supposed to be
MC: Is it because of power, after all?
🌞: Power is a part but the current business scheme is backwards in terms of change. It is afraid of change and as a result of being backwards, our hands are tied.
MC: [Is this due to] the dependence on CDs?
🌞: Yes, I would say around the 2010s or even around 2005. Even though America’s Tower Records ceased to exist in 2010, [Japan] depended on it. [CDs] are public goods so I don’t think the decision is wrong there, but the reality of the problem is that [Japan is] completely behind the trend of [seeing] streaming services rewriting the global music business.
MC: The J-music industry
🌞: Yes, that’s a fact. Around 2010, when YouTube completely changed the music industry it was a trend we all could have imagined, but the Japanese music scene became too powerful, made a lot of success. [It’s like] a luxury liner like the Titanic finishing [a cruise] and it can’t move anymore. So it’s necessary that [overseas] listeners are able to listen [to music], but there is no streaming in Japan. The algorithm… [If listeners] are listening to overseas artists, it’s unlikely they’ll come across [a Japanese song] by chance. For myself, I sometimes listen to Thai songs, sometimes Indonesia, or South Africa, [the algorithm] will randomly give me a Mongolian artist. This is the interesting thing, and high [value of], streaming services.
MC: So we come into contact with artists from around the world [on streaming services], but Japan’s artists are not there so people [overseas] don’t get suggested Japanese artists.
🌞: In terms of music proximity, it wouldn’t be strange if someone who listens to Kpop gets suggested [a Jpop song] but Japan is not in that market at the moment.
MC: Because of the large domestic market of 120 million, no record company or agencies tried to go abroad or do so through streaming…
🌞: They didn’t
MC: And now [the industry] is paying the price for it
🌞: We are.. And I’ve pretty much declared it as an economic problem for the whole country. I don’t think it’s realistic to say, “Well, this happened.. Let’s make a good song and if we get irritated, it’ll reach someone at some point, someone will understand.” There are overseas collaborations, live collaborations, many things, and it goes into the suggestions somewhere.
MC: They are fed into the algorithm on streaming services, if overseas artists collab, like Spotify, Apple Music, or Amazon Music playlists.
🌞: It increases their chances of entering into playlists, and what kind of playlist.
BMSG & Streaming
🌞: To be specific, “Let’s get into this playlist”, so like a tree, you put the playlist here. If you do that you appear at quite the top, surprisingly. [And a song being quite at the top of a playlist] is where you can increase your listeners. So if we make good music for that, it’s possible it can go viral. “Oh these kids are trending now”, or “This song is good!” when the listeners increase like this, the next step is countless ways of reaching out. Since their debut, we’ve uploaded countless BE:FIRST’s live performances, Youtube videos. When people click on them.. MVs are important, but I want live performances to be a quicker way of reaching them. By doing that.. And if you watermark their variety contents, [a listener] might go from “I’ve listened to their songs. Their videos are pretty good too. I went to see them live… Ah, these guys are cool!” and “Wow, they do some pretty crazy things in their variety shows, I might wanna support them!” If you can get listeners to reach that point, then I think that kind of person might become a fan. But in order to increase fans, you have to increase listeners first. It's a real problem. And... it’s also a problem for foreign artists who want the Japanese market… Or hope to? My impression of overseas artists that want to work with Japanese artists or do a collab is minimal. The negative aspects of Japan… I’m going to sound pessimistic here. The [Japanese] culture is well protected, so what has been developed in the Galápogos Island has its charms.
Context 6: Galápagos syndrome or the Galápagos Island is a Japanese business term. It refers to businesses or a market (Japan) that is developing in isolation and independently from others. The term "Galápagos" is taken from the name of Galápagos Islands, an island with flora and fauna that was developing independently, isolated from the mainland. (coined by Darwin). It has been used as an analogy and metaphor to describe trends in Japan not just economically, but also in technology and society.
🌞: I do like ninjas and samurais. The beauty and aesthetics of these things are of course, loved culturally, and there are definitely fans of Japan internationally, and quite a couple of them.
MC: But [Japan] needs to be open to streaming first, so that people can listen to [songs] overseas.
🌞: Yes, so people can listen to them.
MC: This is something other agencies in Japan haven’t been able to do, but BMSG has?
🌞: I think it is more commonplace these days, but it stood out even in 2020, at the time the company was founded I think.
MC: Having the full MV uploaded to YouTube, streaming for overseas listeners, wasn’t so mainstream?
🌞: That’s right, and I think agencies that are conservative have quite a strong influence. So there were no foreign companies that had the impression Japanese entertainment companies as a whole were open to the global market.
MC: So you decided to focus on streaming, have collaborations [to] improve recognition abroad. The next phase of that is leaving home ground?
🌞: I think so.
MC: Hold lives and concerts?
🌞: The rest is up to them
BMSG & World-Class Quality
MC: And BMSG will enter this phase next year? With BE:FIRST spearheading?
🌞: BE:FIRST will kick it off, BMSG as a whole.. I’m glad that BMSG places importance in guaranteeing quality. Once [the artists] performance-ism is born, everyone else gets good. Being able to guarantee that… really hits me. When [people abroad have] different tastes and the language is different.. When you see a performance, it’s a dance of non-verbal communication. Even though it’s a person [dancing]...
MC: If the quality isn’t world class, they won’t debut
🌞: Quite the opposite, Japan has an environment where there are dance schools all over the country. The security at night is safe enough that children can take lessons. I’m not saying talent isn’t being developed, most of these kids go on to compete. There are a lot of children who are taking these lessons, soaking everything in with their eyes and ears, so I think there are definitely kids who have world-class quality but their talents are asleep. There’s no exit for them, the reason for that being the industry. The kids who I have signed with have world-class quality, but they did not quite fit in with what the existing Japanese entertainment agencies are looking for. They have world-class quality to begin with. Even if they don’t.. I wouldn’t sign them based on how they get on with others, or just from vibes.
MC: So from the time you signed them, they are artists set to go for the world.. I’m sure there’d be a lot of struggles, being abroad and away from home, they may not see the fruits of their efforts until a certain time... So the artists need to have the mental strength to overcome all of that, and that is also the company’s stance, taking in quality [talents] for the short and long-term?
🌞: That’s right
MC: And that’s different from other companies?
🌞: Yes, and I would say this is why I founded this start-up. Like you said, if we succeed as a result [of going abroad], I think it would give us a good counter-argument. It would also be good news for artists from other entertainment companies.
The Atmosphere of BMSG
MC: I want to dig deeper into the company’s organizational structure… You are an artist, CEO, and producer. Moreover the company is growing in profit, it looks like things are going well. The company’s producing results; your skills as a CEO are praised; your staff is also continuing to grow – is there moments where you’re one-manning this too much and there might be risks of others having difficulty giving their input?
🌞: This April, I finally started to distribute roles… The rest is.. being ready to get my own ass kicked [boss laughs]
MC: Make it easier to say things
🌞: Two things I think. The first is to fully use your ability to talk [equally / no hierarchy]. The second is, no matter how stupid you are, where you are placed in the [organizational] system, or even without that, with power pretty equally distributed and fixed, you have a right to say something even if you’re a rookie. That is even more true as an artist and producer so I think it’s about being able to educate yourself.
MC: So your executives are able to say, “No, boss I don’t think that’s right,” and voice their opinions?
🌞: Yes.
MC: That’s true for staff too?
🌞: Yes, not just staff but regular employees too
MC: They can also say, “Shacho that’s wrong”
🌞: Yes, I can go, “Because of A and B, wouldn’t it be better if we go AB?”, they can go “Unnnn, I don’t think so” and I ask why, they elaborate and I might go, “Now that you put it that way…” Simply put, “If you do this with this company, good things will happen” and I’d be wondering why couldn't I imagine this. I fundamentally believe that human nature is good, so if there’s something that seems good I think it’ll be good if we do it, but there are staff who have seen proper, negative things. It’s only been four years, but there are employees who have been with us for a while now. When I look at them and the relationship they have with me from our conversations, it's a great reassurance to know that they won't get angry even if you say something to them.
MC: So [your staff] are able to persuade you and convince you that something is different or wrong
🌞: Yeah, I have been persuaded before. Definitely. But you know.. I think the most important thing is sincerity. Sincerity and.. Even I don’t like saying this myself but, a sense of playfulness. [boss laughs, a very loud one] And I could be convinced.
A CEO with the appearance of an artist
MC: Just by appearances, you’re an artist right? Even though you’re also CEO. Have the criticisms and envy towards you, like “These artists are not gonna last long” and such, stopped?
🌞: No, I think they’re going to keep coming 😂 It can’t be helped I think, if they wanna keep saying it. It happens when you are able to achieve results that make people jealous of you. I think that’s why the people you meet, whether they are in the same industry or not, independent companies or not, young companies – they are all very positive and supportive – they know that if an entertainment company like BMSG succeeds, everyone will be happy. These are older people too, so they all dote on us.
And like you said earlier, I have the appearance of an artist, so that’s a plus sometimes. For example, when I greet people properly and give them my business card – something that is more or less fully in the spirit of business etiquette – I get a, “Wow!” but all I did was something normal!
Or, I meet them today and the next day or day after I send an email at 8am saying it was lovely to see them, I often get, “You’re good! You’re doing this properly!”
MC: You’re doing something totally normal but getting positive feedback for it
🌞: Yes! 😆
MC: I’d be jealous!
🌞: So I think there’s no negative effect, it all becomes positive effect 😆
BE:FIRST & BE:FIRST Chief Manager Interview
SOTA, LEO (BE:FIRST)
MC: Your boss said you’ll be competing with the world, has there been anything in you that’s changed? A world class level performance compared to Japan, will mean a different style of battle too, perhaps? Of course, I think you guys will be showing all that you got too, but what do you think, heading for the world next year?
🐬: We’ve always been making music with our eye on the world. Personally for me, I’ve been refining my dance for a long time in order to compete against the world. So I think, “Finally! 🔥” and now that we’ve stated it explicitly, we can show our true potential. I’m looking forward to it.
🦁: There’s a bit of difference between the music boom in Japan and the world. We’ve been doing this for a long time, so we’re confident we can be the bridge between JPop and the world. Show that properly.
MC: What will next year look like?
🦁: It would be the “Year of the Challenge”, we just had a meeting about it yesterday too. It will be a critical year but that doesn’t mean we’re leaving the fans in Japan behind. As a guarantee, we asked ourselves, “Why do we want to go to the world?” [because] we are proud of JPop and want to bring the history and culture of JPop to the world. We want BE:FIRST to be at the forefront of connecting JPop and the world.
🐬: We don’t mind if we start from zero diving to the world. It’s like finally going back to the same place, I’m looking forward to getting back to it. But in the end, like 🦁 said, we want to liven up the Japanese music scene, based on the music we hear in the place we love. We want to do our best with the music from home, so that’s why we want to go overseas, properly, this once, and show people what’s great about Japan.
MC: The North American market is the best entertainment in the world, but where are you aiming?
🦁: It would be the Half-Time Show at the Super Bowl right?
🐬: Whether in sports or culture.. It’s a big stage, to be able to stand on the same line as other cultures and perform music on. It is our biggest dream to be the first in Asia.
MC: How long do you think that will take you?
[ 🐬, 🦁 deep breaths]
🦁: Mmmmmm~ How long~?
🐬: I think our admiration has to stop first of all.
🦁: Ootani-san… 😩
🐬: Every year, we should stop looking at [people they admire] and go, “Wah! So cool!” I don’t want to feel impressed, just focus on what’s in front of me so that even if I’m watching them from afar, my confidence is so strong that I can get to a point where I can look at them [again] and go, “No, we can do this too.”
JUNON, RYUHEI, SHUNTO (BE:FIRST), SKY-HI
MC: Will BE:FIRST be making money from overseas in 10 years’ time?
🌞: What does JUNON think?
🐢: We will [boss laughs]. Because we can’t stop and we don’t want to [be] stop[ped].
🐉: One thing I’ve been thinking about recently is music is very different from sports. I’ve been watching soccer a lot recently so I’ve been really into it. It seems like a moment’s play determines your... like, market value. And that’s how the world sees you? Or equals the world, I guess.
🌞: It’s a number
🐉: And music is a more intimate part of everyday life. Like your inner life, and…
🌞: Hard to put a number…
🐉: Hard to put a number. It’s a collection of things that are hard to put a number on, that creates the music.
🌞: Definitely
🐉: So… How do I put it...
🌞: You’re doing good!
🐉: It's not just about making good music; it's about being evaluated as a company. I think that's really important.
🌞: That’s right! 🐨 do your best!
MC: We’ll leave the ending for you / 🌞: End it good!
🐨: Why why why? I’m the next president or something?
[boss laughs]
Matsuo Taisei (BE:FIRST Chief Manager)
MC: Can you give your job title?
🦺(Matsuo Taisei, Management Section 2): Yes, I’m BE:FIRST’s chief manager
MC: What do you do as a chief manager?
🦺: Basically, everything that BE:FIRST does other than singing and dancing. Managing their schedule, their condition physically or mentally, and so forth with a team of managers.
MC: When it comes to managers in entertainment, it’s like they are glued to their artist’s in their private life, and move as one with the artist, is that how it’s like?
🦺: In that sense, we are completely separate [entities] here.
MC: What do you mean by that?
🦺: I do agree in the sense that a pro artist should have a pro manager, so does my team and my office. But if a member has a request during private / off hours to get them something and take it to their house, we do not accept them or do them.
MC: Next year, BE:FIRST is going off to the world. The battle in Japan and the battle with the world is, of course, different, is it different for you, from a manager’s perspective?
🦺: It is… I don’t know if I’ll put it as a fight / battle, but the way people know about their music, domestically and internationally is really different, and varies by country. I feel the struggles of this battle the most when speaking with foreign promoters.
MC: It is difficult?
🦺: I think it’s very difficult. When people see BE:FIRST, I was quite surprised about the discrepancy between the positive impressions people have of them in Japan, and the positive impressions people have of them overseas. When you ask fans after a live what stood out to them, Japanese fans would say, “When this member is singing!” but in America they would say, “When this member is performing!”. So what they look at, what they find charming of the members and their performance and what they like, is different.
MC: So for BE:FIRST English is pretty much mandatory for them?
🦺: Emmmmm, about thatttt 😅 But you know, even switching the position, we’re grateful and happy when artists overseas learn Japanese and speak it. So it’s the bottom line and essential that they know the words and manners – to protect ourselves and for people overseas to like us 😊 At least I personally think it should be like that.
MC: Right, because eventually you’d want them to use English for interviews and use English to interact with the local fans. How are they right now?
🦺: They are working very hard, including me 😄
SKY-HI before the POSSE live
MC: So today you’re acting as producer?
🌞: In some ways yes, but [this is] different from BE:FIRST and MAZZEL, we’re all solo artists that gathered together, so I’m standing with them today.
MC: You stand on stage as equals?
🌞: Yes, 🦀 would even call me “Dacchan” off-stage.
🦀: !!!
[boss laughs]
🦀: Not Dacchan! Mikkun, Mikkun!
🌙: He called you “Mikkun” a while back too 👀
[boss laughs]
🌞: How come.. How come if Dacchan doesn’t fly you go with Mikkun?
MC: So on days like today, being on stage, it doesn’t matter if you’re the CEO
🦀: Rather than doesn’t matter… [boss stare] No no no, that’s not it.
[boss laughs]
😈: It’s the standard
MC: You’re equals
🦀: Yeah, like rather than a CEO, we’re all friends
😈: I’m the senpai here by the way 😤
MC: So not the boss…
🦀: Yes, to me, boss is like a god to me!
[All laugh]
Boss’s schedule
- Google Calendar blocks in white and blue = main focus
- Red = His artists’ schedule, different artist = different colour
[I think he says you're also supposed to look at it top to bottom, right to left 😂 🙏 ]
[And obviously with all those overlaps, he is multi-multi-tasking and heading over to his artist’ gig if his schedule allows]
🌞: If I were to break it down strictly, I could separate it, but on average there should be 7-8 hours of meetings per day. I feel like about half of my work is as a CEO, and the other half as a producer and an artist. [He would describe the ratio as 5:3:2 but in terms of how he feels which one he’s doing, he thinks he’s doing all 3 at the same time.]
BMSG Managers & Artists
MC: Your company’s pretty flat in terms of managers and artists. In the industry a common view for a long time is the manager looks after the artist even in their private life. BMSG doesn’t do that at all?
Context 7: “Flat” here meaning equal
🌞: That’s right. We’re all the same, crews on a ship together. If there’s people who cook, then there are people who fix things or map out the route. Just that our roles are different.
MC: What does your day look like? Meetings, meetings, recording, artist activities?
🌞: I wonder.. I’m always doing something.
MC: What about days off? 2 days? (Weekends)
🌞: I have zero off days. I don’t really rest. I’ll take 3-4 days off in January but…
MC: Oh true, you’re [with BE:FIRST] at Kouhaku.
🌞: Yes, after that I kind of rest and I kinda do my best after [resting].
MC: When did you last rest?
🌞: This year?............................................ Around the summer? I find it difficult to rest completely. I need to do something.
MC: Going back to our conversation earlier, I think our viewers are going to be quite shocked that [the charts and industry] is still so dependent on CDs…
🌞: It’s a lot easier after getting off [of that dependence]. That said, how to face the charts will be the question…
MC: Inevitably, BMSG still has to sell CDs?
🌞: If I think about label and promotions I don’t really think releases have to chart at number 1 necessarily. I just wonder if there’s something better…
MC: But right now you’d still have to sell CDs?
🌞: Yes, we just don’t depend on them. But this isn’t about us not being affected… There are talents that can only be saved if the entire music industry changes.
To climb the spider's thread towards streaming
🌞: I don’t think Japan is in a place to be complacent [about digital platforms / streaming].
MC: They fall? Ah, you mean they need to climb up the [spider’s] thread
🌞: Yes, climb
MC: [So the destination after the climb] is hope? They have to climb it?
🌞: [The thread] is very thin though
Context 8: Boss and the MC is alluding to the Japanese folklore, "Kumo no Ito / Spider’s Thread" here. It is a story that teaches the lesson that one shouldn't be self-centered / selfish because what you do may come back at you as punishment.
MC: There are lots of artists, so they all gotta climb that very thin thread, in order to be noticed they have to climb the thread [towards] music [streaming] platforms…
🌞: Because.. Nothing can happen if [people] aren’t listening, right. Thanks to the Internet, there are numerous ways to monetize entertainment. I’m not kidding when I say it’s infinite. That said, before monetizing you got to have people listening, create that environment where they can listen. In the past, that would have been on TV, the radio, or magazine spreads and that would’ve been it. The proliferation of streaming services has changed the business model but it has changed the distance between music and people too. So I think it’s hope.
MC: But you’re saying Japanese music industry doesn’t really use streaming services?
🌞: Didn’t
MC: And that created the gap between Japan and the world?
🌞: It did. [Japan] wasn’t ready for renovation from the start, so unless sales go up it isn’t going to change the situation much…
On Bulkbuying and the Reliance on CDs
MC: What will you be talking about with Spotify Japan at this event?
🌞: Ironically, I feel like I will need to explain in an easy-to-understand way, the story of how much the [Japanese] CD business is strangling the [Japanese] music industry and killing it.
MC: [The industry] sells CD with special bonuses, handshake events to make sales, you’re saying this is harmful?
🌞: Very harmful. From an environmental view, it’s probably not enough, and.. How should I put it, exploiting fans’ passionate desire to support an artist for the charts. Isozaki-san from Billboard [Japan] will be there so I think it would be exciting to talk about [this] with him. The return rate to a chart’s number 1 encourages people to buy the same thing, but it’s old media, old-fashion media, so the return rate to the artist is far lower than goods. If everyone spent all the money they had on CDs on goods [instead], the life of the artist they support would probably twice or three times better. Maybe that’s not the case here, goods have varying profit margins is one thing, but it would be twice or three times cheaper to live [for the artist and fans]. I think that’s one of the main reasons why BMSG, even though it is just a start-up, was able to invest all the money it received and allow our artists to reach the top, in terms of artist income in a year.
When I compare BE:FIRST with other artists and other groups, even though we stopped bonuses, the latest BE:FIRST single sold about 100K copies. Nowadays, there are still artists who sell 500K or 1M copies, but I think BE:FIRST’s income is higher.
Reflection of physical CD sales on charts and the state of the industry
MC: The ranking has changed a bit for Billboard (Japan). Did you focus on that because they have other rankings besides CDs, like streaming?
🌞: Yes, and BE:FIRST has songs that ranked first on the Billboard charts even though there wasn’t a physical release.
MC: So you focus on streaming.
🌞: Yes, streaming.. Radio and download, of course. It’s changed a bit but… It’s like the chicken or egg question. Due to the low number of registrants the percentage of points reflected on CDs has been dropping significantly over the years. I would think it’s better to lower the percentage [of points for CDs]…
MC: Have existing agencies or record labels stopped you?
🌞: Rather than that, what I found interesting was because the percentage [points for CD sales] won’t drop, it’s why the shift to streaming has been stagnant. If the number of streaming is what it is now, and the streaming percentage is too high, the chart will become fixed. The fact that there’s not a lot of people streaming means it’s difficult for the chart to flow / change, because there are too few threats to one hit song. Even if you look at the Spotify chart for this week you can definitely see that it’s fixed.
MC: So if a winning artist enters the chart, it’s hard to [top them]
🌞: Yes, and for Spotify or fixed charts like this, it means the state of the [music] industry is stagnant. For Spotify, something like this is not beneficial, however, the sales of CDs is reflected on the charts. For fans, this gives them a sense of success – it’s easy to understand that right? “The huge number of CDs I bought helped them get to number 1 on the chart!” I think that gives [fans] a great sense of accomplishment. I think the industry has created this situation that we can’t get out of.
MC: So even though there’s a shift towards streaming, [Japanese] music industry still places importance on CDs?
🌞: For record companies… They have nothing else they can sell. If the rate of people streaming is comparable to the U.S., for example, it will really change the game. If that happens I think we will see an economic revival of the music scene and [problems now] would be resolved, but with the current system the way it is…. Do people even have CD players in their house these days? If this battle over CD [sales] continues… Unless we end this, the music industry cannot grow in a healthy way.
MC: There’s not going to be new growth in sales if [the industry] relies on this CD business model.
🌞: Definitely not, because it’s not like there are more people listening to CDs. As a business [model], it has died once. The businesses that expanded [on this model] are also dead… Industry insiders are aware that the music industry is dysfunctional, but.. When I talk to other artists, it’s difficult to do anything outside of this quarter / year’s evaluation, evaluation from your higher-ups, evaluation from the parent company, current performance, right? So everyone is biting their lower lip during meetings. [They’ll tell me,] “We also think it’s not good to continue like this, but….” This is a huge phase of illness that I really want to believe is not too late for the music industry [to recover from].
Context 9: SKY-HI uses “背に腹で Se ni hara de”, the full proverb being “背に腹は代えられぬ Se ni hara wa kaerarenu”, literally, it translates to using your back to protect your internal organs. In context, it means sacrificing one thing in order to protect another thing.
Spotify Japan event (for music industry insiders)
Tony Elison talks about starting from understanding the fans – rely on the listeners and how and what they listen to. He also suggests focusing on streaming and premieres in marketing and promotions plans, the industry supports it. In a sense, it’s the next phase after a key object.
Panel talk: Shift to Streaming (SKY-HI, Isozaki of BillBoard Japan)
SKY-HI talks about Bling-Bang-Bang-Born, even though physical CD sales were only about 10K for the song, by focusing on streaming, it became a hit song in Japan, a song everyone was listening to.
He also talks about the benefit of being able to see the data [monthly listeners, statistics, etc.] on streaming services, as someone who is managing an entertainment company. He says it’s extremely helpful because the more accurate the data, the clearer the measures he can take for sales and how effective they can be.
What is a sustainable music industry?
Panel MC: I think everyone here knows what SKY-HI has proposed, details are on his [company] homepage, what was the reaction like?
🌞: Long story short, I think the practice of exploiting a fandom, a fan’s genuine feelings of support, to get one person to buy 100, 200 CDs that include special bonuses, in terms of plastic waste too – simply to up [sale] numbers – is something that needs to change. I threw this question to everyone and I’ve continued to say this. I think there may be some people in this room who wonder if this is right / OK, but a reaction I was happily surprised about is that I didn’t offend anyone.
🌞: I think this CD business model is at its limit, we have to change this, environmentally too. It also stands in the way of an artist’s health and growth. It’s like we’re the Titanic, we see the iceberg but we aren’t able to steer the helm in a different direction and we’re going to sink any minute. I said this very matter-of-factly, so I wondered if [the reception] will be OK, but whether inside or outside the industry, particularly music industry insiders, told me, “Thank you for saying this,” so I think that was a huge relief.
Isozaki: There’s also the fact that Oricon’s rankings gets reported by media the most (and therefore what fans check), and that’s how the business / work flow has operated. The fandom also feels they have to buy the exact number of CDs in order [for their artists] to get on it.
🌞: Yes, the feeling of accomplishment in getting their artist to number 1 on the chart by buying large amounts of CDs must be incomparable for the fans and gives them a sense of success. I don’t think it’s black and white, I strongly feel we should move towards a grey that leans towards white. I do think the industry is abusing fans’ feelings of support through this CD business model.
Chart Hack
Isozaki: Around the first half of 2022, fandom activity was overheated in the form of “chart hacking”, there was an increase to the number of streams from fans. It’s a campaign that rides on fans’ actions to increase the number of streaming views / listens. For example, it encourages people to listen to the song 3,000 or 5,000 times in a week, and then they give them something as a gift. Spotify and Apple [Music] were the quickest to respond when this happened. From them and other DSP (Digital Service Providers), there were people saying, “Is a campaign like this going to reflect on the charts?”
At the same time, we also noticed unusual movements in our own charts [Billboard Japan]. So we started to think about what we should do about this. We looked at the singles that had abnormal increase in sales as our cases and had discussions about this in April and May [,2022]. That same time, we also asked streaming companies if they could respond in some way, i.e. reduce the frequency on songs that they are campaigning for, or subtract the streaming counts on the DSPs when data is submitted. When we did that though, we got told, “You’re just Billboard chart, what right have you got?”
🌞: Wow, and this is 2022 you said?
Isozaki: And, “You’re just a chart, you don’t need to state your intentions to DSPs or record companies.”
I thought, “Well no, even if they say that it can't be helped because the chart is off.” We had to respond in various ways, the DSPs in Japan running the campaign also responded in various ways to those running [this kind of] campaign. However, its reflection in the numbers [in the charts] were not that great. The number of songs that have abnormal numbers have increased.
Panel MC: Meaning campaigns that encourage increasing streaming counts are still happening?
Isozaki: That’s right.
🌞: I can understand there are things you can’t sacrifice, “We have to do this” or “We can’t afford to see our numbers drop this much”, I can understand that a businessman’s philosophy doesn’t work. But, if there’s a campaign for views, a dishonest form of gaining numbers, it results in a process of crushing each other’s pie and hinders healthy growth [in this industry]. Just like what I said about CD business model, it’s not black or white but leaning towards a grey that is whiter. I’m not saying you have to do this or you mustn’t do that, I’m just thinking how much easier this will be if everyone does it. I’m not discrediting their methods, but I think it’s safe to say the artist’s growth is not what comes out of campaigns like this.
Isozaki: Regarding overenthusiastic [fans], wouldn't Mr. Hidaka be given an honorific title?
🌞: You’re bitter
Isozaki: You don’t think it’s contradictory to create super fans?
🌞: I don’t think so. For instance, a BE:FIRST song that saw the most growth in numbers on streaming was their [song] in 2022, “Bye-Good-Bye”. The numbers gradually increased in the second and third week, not upon release. The number of listeners increased from there, so how to turn those listeners into fans? [BE:FIRST’s] performances. How do you turn those fans into super fans? Contents besides their songs. How do you monetize those super fans? There are honestly many ways to do this.
🌞: As much as we’d like to be number one on the charts, we aren’t running away from it, but I really want to stop being in a situation where I can only choose one or the other – CD or number of streaming counts. Like, do I completely withdraw from the battle for #1 on the charts or not aim for #1 on the charts, or do I have to take part in the battle? I want to break down these two choices. I really want to [make] this black and white [turn into] a grey that is whiter.
Context 10: Isozaki-san was implying that it is contradictory for SKY-HI to "create" super fans, because this feeds into the cycle of excessive streaming and spending. SKY-HI is saying his "super fans" are different because his is birthed from organic, gradual increase in interest in an artist through other content (besides a song) rather than a harder push for said fans to get songs to chart at #1
BMSG Management Meeting (Board of Directors) & Tour of the BMSG Office
[Projected on the screen]
The final settlement has been decided and the official report has been submitted.
155% growth in sales compared to last year
Operating profit saw 174% growth compared to last year
Operating profit 3.1 billion yen
Final net profit 2 billion yen
[Some points brought up]
There are people in the company who can look out for an artist at the start of their career / debut but there aren’t [enough] employees right now to think / plan out an artist’s career around the middle [say, 2-3 years in].
Something about goods here and how people might miss it and 🌞 thinks it’s a shame. Since 1 picture [of goods] can mean 10 or 20 million yen, put out what they have, but also hold back where needed. We are indies in our hearts, but our slogan is, “To be professional.” So keep your eyes peeled, don’t miss anything.
🌞: I can understand it from your point of view, “You guys made it in a carefree way,” and that’s enough… But I think we need to be careful how we deliver it once [the goods] are made. I think a note that says, “The [goods] arrived and the members kinda checked it” is not quite it.
Sakai Keisuke (Management section 1): Even when they come up with the goods right, it’s also somewhat casual. Maybe a team they can talk to about the formatting… [not sure about this either]
🌞: A manager in charge of merchandise (MD) would be good, right? You can either use whoever we have currently or hire someone new.
Manager (Management Section ?): They can probably do that alongside promotions
🌞: Yeah
[On the screen]
Instead of rules of entertainment industry, the common sense of society
Greetings, Introductions, Communication
KA - Kakumeiteki [Revolutionary]
MA - Majime [Serious]
SOU - Souzouryoku [imaginative]
ZE - Seichouyoku [A Thirst for Growth]
🌞: Not saying BE:FIRST don’t have common sense, I can understand them, but some of them didn’t have experience [working / communicating] in society from when they auditioned. And then they grow up like that. There’s a saying right, even when you’re over 30 years old in entertainment you somehow still act like a kid. Y’all are probably thinking, “You’re not the one to say~”
[BOD laugh]
🌞: Don’t look at me like, “You’re not the one to say~”
BOD: No no no~
🌞: I think there are a lot of [entertainers] who are over 30 but act like kids. I can understand that but I think you have to be aware that you gotta mature or… what is it…
🌞: I hope everyone grows up and matures 🥺
🌞: For artists, if the same person keeps saying the same thing it becomes less effective, right? Aside from those who keep saying the same thing, sometimes I think the best person [to say something] is someone who is difficult to talk to. Distance is difficult isn’t it. It’s not fun to be constantly intimidated by a manager but if you don’t find the manager scary, you don’t feel tense.
Speaking with BOD
MC: How is the company organization like? Do you guys depend on one person?
Keisuke (Management section 1): In this year alone, 20-30 people have joined us and we’re still hiring for more.
MC: There’s not enough?
Keisuke: Yes, we are still accepting applications.
MC: If your boss goes out of control are you guys able to stop him?
Keisuke: He doesn’t really go out of control, he’s quite calm and collected when he’s making decisions so it doesn’t happen much – he’s just like how you saw in the BOD meeting, he creates a space where it’s easier for people to voice their input.
MC: What do you think are the challenges for the company?
Hamamoto Yuumi (Management section 4 / Trainee’s BASE): Probably human resources. All of us have quite a lot on our plate and we’re all focused on what’s in front of us. So sometimes, like [boss] mentioned in the meeting, some things may spill over, even if we’re all working hard.
BMSG recording studio
MC: I see, so artists can come in here and make songs
🌞: They can. There’s mics here for them to record their voices too. We’ve been taken care of a lot by this spot.
MC: And you’ve made a number of songs here?
🌞: We have, including those that have been released.
MC: You’ve been here and probably there too!
🌞: Yes, I’ve been in all places.
MC: So you have all the equipment and facilities you need right in your own company
🌞: Yes. It’s huge that we have this.
MC: But to have all this equipment all set up must’ve costed quite a lot
🌞: Yes, it’s weird to say this but… if you think about it in, “We can earn it back with one hit song….”
MC: As a music company of course!
🌞: Investing in making something that [can] make a lot of good music is probably cheap at any price! This was something we got to have, this was the first thing I invested in.
MC: How many can fit in there?
🌞: 4-5 maybe?
BMSG Dance Studio
MC: It’s huge! So everyone practices here?
🌞: Yes. When I was looking for [an office] and saw this ceiling I thought there weren’t a lot like it. So when I found this I really wanted it.
MC: So everyone in BE:FIRST practices here?
🌞: They do. I’m thankful that our artists feel like this is their space too.
MC: By the way that is…
🌞: The gym. To go to the gym, you go through [the dance] studio, you can also see what happens at the [dance] studio [from the gym]. It encourages communication.
MC: They can see what other artists are doing [in the dance studio]
🌞: They can. Whether they are solo artists or in a group, they are more than friends? Comrades. Comrades aboard the same ship.
MC: There will be two groups next year, making that four groups. There are five soloists, including yourself.
🌞: I’m actually looking for a new weapon
[There’s a question here from the MC I don’t quite get]
MC: To put it in a different way, things are going really well right now, if there’s a risk what is it?
🌞: As an entertainment company, we don’t sell things right? It’s about people. So I think the biggest risk is our creativity is not what fans expect. And… I don’t know when that will come, but when my own sense doesn’t match with the times, because [time] is fluid. 10 years ago I was often told, “Your sense is cool but it’s not gonna be trendy in Japan!” Now that it’s been 10 years, I think there are times when my sense matches with Japan. 10 years from now, I’ll still be creating and nurturing artists, not only running the company, but probably also thinking about who will take over as a producer. I’m sure I’ll still be working pretty hard 10 years from now.
MC: I’m sure
🌞: At that time, I think we need to be in a situation where we are able to properly train a new producer.
MC: For the future of the company
🌞: Yes
Context 11: The literal translation would’ve been boss came at the right time with the right gears (haguruma ga atteru) so I took liberties with this so that the translation flowed better here.
Hope you enjoyed this very long interview!
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